Bekijk volle/desktop versie : Verschil Riba an-Nasie'ah en Riba al-Fadl



14-08-2015, 00:34
Begrijp ik het zo goed?

Riba al-Fadl is bijvoorbeeld wanneer één euro voor twee euro wordt verkocht.
Riba an-Nasie'ah is wanneer één euro voor twee pond wordt verkocht, of wanneer een meter gerst wordt verkocht voor twee meter tarwe? Klopt dit?

En is Riba an-Nasie'ah erger dan Riba al-Fadl?

14-08-2015, 00:51



Citaat door OumHunayn:
Begrijp ik het zo goed?

Riba al-Fadl is bijvoorbeeld wanneer één euro voor twee euro wordt verkocht.
Riba an-Nasie'ah is wanneer één euro voor twee pond wordt verkocht, of wanneer een meter gerst wordt verkocht voor twee meter tarwe? Klopt dit?

En is Riba an-Nasie'ah erger dan Riba al-Fadl?

Citaat:

Assalamu alikum,

Ik heb een aantal Engelse fatawa met uitleg over het verschil tussen beide soorten van de dragers van kennis voor je. Als je wil kan ik ze fisabililah plaatsen voor je ter nasieha fisabililah sis. Ghair insha Allah!


.

14-08-2015, 00:53
Wa 3alaykoemoessalaam, ja. Graag.

14-08-2015, 00:59

Citaat:
Wa alikum assalam,

Bij deze de onderstaande fatawa. Insha Allah heb je er baat bij. Ghair insha Allah!



Fatwas of the Permanent Committee
Browse by Volume Number > Group 1 > Volume 13: Transactions 1 > Buyu` > Riba Al-Nasi'ah > Difference between Riba Al-Fadl and Riba Al-Nasi'ah:The thirty second question of Fatwa no. 18612:

Question 32:

Would you kindly explain the difference between Riba Al-Fadl (usury of excess, selling an item for another of the same type, on the spot, but in excess) and Riba Al-Nasi'ah (usury of delay, conditional excess for delay of payment)?


Answer:

Riba Al-Nasi'ah is derived from the Arabic root ''nasa'a'' which means to ''delay" or "defer". This type of Riba falls into two categories:

First: Charging interest on the loan lent to an insolvent debtor. This category was commonly practiced in the pre-Islamic era. A person, for example, may lend another person a sum of money to be paid back on a specified date. When the date agreed upon is due, the creditor gives the debtor the choice either to repay the debt or defer repayment in return for charging additional interest on the principal.

Second: Exchanging two items of the same type which bear the common cause of Riba Al-Fadl while stipulating deferment of delivery of one or both of the exchanged items. An example of this includes exchanging gold for gold or for silver or exchanging silver for gold while stipulating deferment of delivery.

Riba Al-Fadl is derived from the Arabic root "fadl" which means "increase" or "growth". This type of Riba involves increase in either of the two articles subject to exchange. According to Hadith of the Prophet, six things are susceptible to Riba Al-Fad: gold, silver, wheat, barley, dates and salt.

It is prohibited to charge interest on such transactions where any of the above things are exchanged for articles of the same type. The same holds true with regard to exchanging two articles which bear the same common cause of prohibition. It is, for example, prohibited to exchange a kilo of gold of inferior quality for half a kilo of superior quality. The same is applicable in the case of exchanging a good type of silver, wheat, barley, dates, or salt for a poor type.

It is only permissible to exchange articles of the above mentioned things provided that they are equal in weight and the exchange has to be made in a hand-to-hand transaction.

However, it is permissible to exchange a kilo of gold for two kilos of silver provided that it is a hand-to-hand transaction. This is because gold and silver are of different types. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, Gold is to be exchanged for gold, silver for silver, wheat for wheat, barley for barley, dates for dates, and salt for salt, like for like and equal for equal, payment being made hand to hand. If these classes differ, then sell as you wish if payment is made hand to hand. Narrated by Muslim from the Hadith narrated on the authority of `Ubadah ibn Al-Samit (may Allah be pleased with him).

May Allah grant us success. May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions.

The Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta':

Member Member Deputy Chairman Chairman
Bakr Abu Zayd Salih Al-Fawzan `Abdul-`Aziz Al Al-Shaykh `Abdul-`Aziz ibn `Abdullah ibn Baz[/SIZE]


[SIZE=2]


Fatwas of Ibn Baz>Volume 19>Book on Al-Buyu` (Sales)>Interview>Difference between Tawarruq and both types of Riba: Riba Al-Fadl and Riba Al-Nasi'ah:The Difference between Tawarruq Sale and the two types of Riba: Riba Al-Fadl and Riba Al-Nasi'ah:

Question 138:

According to the definition of Riba Al-Nasi'ah (usury of delay, conditional excess for delay of payment), it is an excess for delay. To what extent does this transaction conform to the grain and cars debt system that is in effect now as a substitute for usury-fee loans? Please provide us with a Fatwa (legal opinion issued by a qualified scholar). May Allah reward you well!

Answer:

Riba (usury/interest) is the act of exchanging two objects of the same type, namely; Riba Al-Fadl (usury of excess, selling an item for another of the same type, on the spot, but in excess), such as exchanging one Sa` (1 Sa`=3 kg. Approx.) of something for two of the same type, or a Dirham for two, whether this takes place instantly or on a deferred basis. If this involves debt for debt, then it includes both types of Riba; Riba Al-Fadl and Riba Al-Nasi'ah. As for Tawarruq sale (selling by installments, then the purchaser selling the product to a third party for cash), it is not one of these types, for it involves buying a commodity on credit from a person then selling it in cash on the same day or after that to someone else.

The correct opinion is that it is permissible, according to the general evidence mentioned to this effect. Furthermore, it includes relieving, facilitating and meeting people's present need. As for selling an item to the person from whom it has been bought, this is not permissible, rather it is one of prohibited Riba- based transactions that is called the issue of 'Inah (sale with immediate cash repurchase for profit), for it is a form of delusion observed to deal with Riba. It is the exchange of similar items for excess amounts either on a deferred basis or in cash. However, there is nothing wrong with Tawarruq sale as previously mentioned, for a person tends to buy a commodity such as foodstuff, a car, a piece of land or other items for cash money for a fixed term from one person, then he sells it to someone else for cash in order to meet their needs such as marriage and so on.[/SIZE]



[SIZE=2]Fatwas of Ibn Baz>Volume 19>Book on Al-Buyu` (Sales)>Interview>Ruling on selling food for another of the same type in excess:

Question 142: Wheat crops are cultivated in abundance in our country, but there is currency shortage. We, therefore, use the grain in trading instead of currency. At seeding time, we buy one Sa` (1 Sa`=3 kg. Approx.) for one Riyal. However, at the time of harvest, we deliver them two Sa`s for each Riyal because the price at harvest is less than that at seeding time. Is this transaction lawful?

Answer:

This kind of transaction is a subject of disagreement among the scholars. The majority are of the view that it is not permissible because it is a way to sell wheat and the like for another of the same type in conditional excess for delay of payment. This is the essence of Riba as it involves two kinds of Riba: Riba Al-Nasi'ah (usury of delay, conditional excess for delay of payment) and Riba Al-Fadl (usury of excess, selling an item for another of the same type, on the spot, but in excess). On the other hand, some scholars held that this transaction is permissible provided the buyer and seller do not work in collusion. They should, upon contracting, not stipulate that the wheat is to be exchanged for currency. This is the view of the people of knowledge in this respect. Yet, your way of dealing suggests that you planned to deliver a larger quantity of cereal for a lesser quantity because of the currency shortage. This way is not permissible. To be safer and avoid dealing in Riba, farmers must sell their grains in cash to a third party other than the merchants who purchased the seeds.

If the farmers agree with the merchants to buy from them using currency, the farmers are unable to make the payment except through exchanging the value of the sale with grains. The most correct opinion is that it is permissible provided they do not work in collusion, or stipulate any condition beforehand. This is the view held by some scholars especially when the farmers are needy. The merchants fear that their rights will be lost if they do not take the quantity of cereals which is equivalent to the liabilities the farmers have. The poor farmers may use the grain to fulfill their needs or repay another creditor and the merchants lose their rights. It should be noted that it is impermissible for the farmers and merchants to plan to exchange, after the harvest, the currency with grains. The grains which are delivered to the merchants should be equal to what the farmers take; the merchants should not take more or consider it as a loan. The sale becomes Haram if they planned to take more.



/

14-08-2015, 01:03


Vervolg tevens slot:


Citaat:

Fatwas of the Permanent Committee>Group 1>Volume 13: Transactions 1>Buyu`>Selling gold>Ruling on Riba
The first question of Fatwa no. 17321:

Question 1: What is the ruling on purchasing pure gold on credit as well as purchasing it in cash?

Answer:

The ruling on Riba (usury/interest) is as follows: 1) Al-Fadl (selling an item for another of the same type, on the spot, but in excess) as well as Al-Nasi'ah (conditional excess for delay of payment) are forbidden when dealing in items that are subject to Riba and which are of the same kind and have the same `Illah (effective cause). An example is the prohibition of Al-Fadl and Al-Nasi'ah when selling gold for gold and silver for silver even if one item of gold or silver is of higher quality than the other gold or silver item. 2) It is impermissible to sell gold and silver jewelry for jewelry of the same kind that is of more weight in return for the price of goldsmithing. 3) When dealing in the items that are liable to Riba and which are of different kinds and have the same `Illah, Al-Nasi'ah is forbidden, however Al-Fadl is permitted, such as in selling gold for silver. It is permissible to sell an item for the other in excess provided that the payment is made in the same session where the agreement is conducted and before each party depart.

4) Al-Fadl as well as Al-Nasi'ah are permitted when dealing in items that are subject to Riba and which are of different kinds and `Illah, such as selling gold for wheat and silver for barley. 5) It is impermissible to sell an item which is subject to Riba for another of the same kind along with an item of different kind. One example is selling one Mudd (A standard measure that equals 543 grams) of pressed dates and a Dirham for the same price or for two Mudds and two Dirhams, or selling one dinar and one dirham for one dinar. 6) Each derivative from the same kind is considered to be a separate kind in itself. For instance, the flour obtained from barley is a kind and the bread made from it is regarded as another kind. 7) It is impermissible to sell the items that are subject to Riba except when using the lawful measurement. The equal measurement must be adhered to, so when selling a commodity that can be measured, it should be sold by measure, and when selling one that can be weighed, it should be sold by weight. 8) Parity must be observed when it appears as a condition in the sale, and doubting this parity constitutes Riba Al-Fadl (selling an item for another of the same type, on the spot, but in excess). 9) The forbidden Riba occurs in other items besides the six items that are mentioned in the Hadith of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and anything related to Riba items is considered to be usurious.

There are many evidences that support the previous rulings including the Hadith related by `Ibadah ibn Al-Samit (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Gold for gold, silver for silver, wheat for wheat, barley for barley, dates for dates, salt for salt, each kind for each kind, in hand. If these classes differ, then sell as you wish if payment is made hand to hand.(Related by Muslim and Ahmad)

Furthermore, it was authentically reported that the Prophet (peace be upon him) stated: gold is to be paid for gold, weight for weight, silver by silver, weight for weight, barley for barley, measure for measure, measure for measure. (Related by Al-Athram and Al-Tahawy) Muslim and others narrated on the authority of Fadalah ibn `Ubayd who said: On the day of Khaybar I bought a necklace that contained gold and pearls for twelve Dinars. I had its price estimated and I found that it was more than twelve dinars. I told the Prophet (peace be upon him) of this and he said, 'It should not be sold until its price is estimated.' Additionally, Muslim and others narrated on the authority of Jabir (may Allah be pleased with him) that he said: “The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) forbade the sale of a heap of dates, the measure of which is unknown, for a specified measure of dates.”

Accordingly, you should not do what you mentioned in the question. This is because selling gold for gold in excess and on credit involves Riba Al-Fadl (usury of excess, selling an item for another of the same type, on the spot, but in excess) and Riba Al-Nasi'ah (usury of delay, conditional excess for delay of payment). Whereas selling gold on credit involves Riba Al-Nasi'ah.

May Allah grant us success. May peace and blessings of Allah be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family and Companions!

The Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta':

Member Member Member Member Chairman
Bakr Abu Zayd `Abdul-`Aziz Al Al-Shaykh Salih Al-Fawzan `Abdullah ibn Ghudayyan `Abdul-`Aziz ibn `Abdullah ibn Baz


[/SIZE]



[SIZE=2]Fatwas of the Permanent Committee>Group 1>Volume 13: Transactions 1>Buyu`>Riba Al-Nasi'ah>Selling cash Dirhams for more deferred Dirhams:Fatwa no. 1970:

Question:

I borrowed four thousand riyals from someone. He wrote the bill with the amount of six thousand riyals to be paid in monthly installments of five hundred riyals per month. Is it permissible to do this?

Answer:

This is a kind of selling dirhams in cash in return for more dirhams that will be paid at a definite time in the future. This is called Riba Al-Nasi'ah (usury of delay, conditional excess for delay of payment) and Riba Al-Fadl (usury of excess, selling an item for another of the same type, on the spot, but in excess). The Qur'an and the Sunnah point out that these two kinds of Riba are prohibited. Therefore, it is not permissible to exchange four thousand Dirhams in cash for six thousand Dirhams that will be paid at a certain time in the future. The seller should not receive anything more than his capital which is four thousand riyals.

If you dispute in this regard, you have to refer to the court. You should also repent to Allah and seek His forgiveness for this major sin. Allah (Exalted be He) says, And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful

May Allah grant us success. May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions.

The Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta':

Member Member Deputy Chairman Chairman
`Abdullah ibn Qa`ud `Abdullah ibn Ghudayyan `Abdul-Razzaq `Afify `Abdul-`Aziz ibn `Abdullah ibn Baz



14-08-2015, 01:37

Citaat door OumHunayn:
Begrijp ik het zo goed?

Riba al-Fadl is bijvoorbeeld wanneer één euro voor twee euro wordt verkocht.
Riba an-Nasie'ah is wanneer één euro voor twee pond wordt verkocht, of wanneer een meter gerst wordt verkocht voor twee meter tarwe? Klopt dit?

En is Riba an-Nasie'ah erger dan Riba al-Fadl?
Nasie-ah houdt in een verlate betaling. Fadl houdt in dat je een van de producten van ribaa wisselt tegen meer van hetzelfde product.


Citaat door Mouwaysie:
De producten van riba zijn:

Goud
Zilver
Gerst
Tarwe
Dadels
Zout


Het is dus uitdrukkelijk verboden om een product tegen hetzelfde product (dus goud tegen goud, of dadels tegen datels) te ruilen met vermeerdering en/of verlate betaling. De betaling moet dus direct zijn en in gelijke mate. Als het niet hetzelfde product is (bijv. goud tegen zilver, of zout tegen gerst) dan mag je het verkopen hoe je het wilt, zolang het maar van hand tot hand gaat, oftewel een directe transactie is.

Als je een kilo dadels ruilt tegen twee kilo dadels, heb je ribaa begaan. (ribaa l-fadl)
Als je een kilo goud ruilt tegen 75 kilo zilver waarbij je op een later tijdstip betaalt of betaalt wordt, heb je ribaa begaan. (ribaa n-nasie-ah)
Als je een kilo goud ruilt tegen twee kilo goud, waarbij de twee kilo op een later tijdstip betaald moet worden, dan heb je ribaa begaan (zowel ribaa l-fadl als ribaa n-nasie-ah)

Geld (euro's, dollar, bitcoins) vallen onder de noemer goud en silver, volgens ahloe l-qiyaas wa l-ma3aanie. Dat houdt dus in dat het toegestaan is om bijvoorbeeld 1,66 euro voor twee dollars te verkopen of te kopen en 1 bitcoin voor 238 euro te verkopen of te kopen, onder voorwaarde dat het direct gaat.

zie ook:
- http://islamqa.info/en/72210
- http://www.ibnothaimeen.com/all/books/article_18098.shtml

14-08-2015, 02:02
BaarakaAllaahoe fiekoema. Morgen lezen in shaae Allaah