Bekijk volle/desktop versie : God v.s. Darwin



13-03-2005, 13:36

Citaat door Bongo:
hehe, je zou bijna denken dat we dezelfde schoonvader hebben gehad.
....was die van jou ook 2 meter lang, mager, met een licht twents accent en een fanatiek golfer, soms?

13-03-2005, 13:39


sorry dat ik even onderbreek, maar ik had een vraagje:

klopt het dat bij de vrijmetselaars (zijn dat ook atheisten ?), aan het sterfbed, enkele medeleden aanwezig zijn, om de stervende te beletten dat hij God aanroept, in zijn stervensuur, wanneer de dood hem bij de keel grijpt?

ps. dit is een serieuze vraag.

13-03-2005, 13:41

Citaat door atropos:
....was die van jou ook 2 meter lang, mager, met een licht twents accent en een fanatiek golfer, soms?
op 1 ding na ja! hij was een hardcore amsterdammer.

13-03-2005, 13:43

Citaat door Jamezs:
sorry dat ik even onderbreek, maar ik had een vraagje:

klopt het dat bij de vrijmetselaars (zijn dat ook atheisten ?), aan het sterfbed, enkele medeleden aanwezig zijn, om de stervende te beletten dat hij God aanroept, in zijn stervensuur, wanneer de dood hem bij de keel grijpt?

ps. dit is een serieuze vraag.
ik ben bang dat ik je dat niet kan beantwoorden. ik heb nauwelijks kennis van vrijmetselarij. wellicht is het zinvol om een topic hierover te openen?

13-03-2005, 13:43



Citaat door Bongo:
op 1 ding na ja! hij was een hardcore amsterdammer.
hahaha...dan was het ZEKER niet dezelfde; die van mij vond amsterdammers een stel arrogante chauvinisten...

...maar in zijn hoednigheid van querulant, had hij op iedereen wat aan te merken natuurlijk....

13-03-2005, 13:45
geen flauw idee, maar: http://www.comeniusloge.nl/begin.html <-- hier kan je meer info vinden..

14-03-2005, 08:19

Citaat door Jamezs:
sorry dat ik even onderbreek, maar ik had een vraagje:

klopt het dat bij de vrijmetselaars (zijn dat ook atheisten ?), aan het sterfbed, enkele medeleden aanwezig zijn, om de stervende te beletten dat hij God aanroept, in zijn stervensuur, wanneer de dood hem bij de keel grijpt?

ps. dit is een serieuze vraag.
Ik ben ook geen expert van vrijmetselaars; ik weet wel dat ze altijd (samen met joden) een dankbaar onderwerp zijn voor complottheorieën. Voor een overzichtje:

http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=8429599&pid=r&mode=ALL&query=vrijmets elaars&t=s

En de meest relevante link daarvan:

http://www.gebladerte.nl/20065g21.htm

14-03-2005, 12:41

Citaat door rja:


Religie heeft schijnbaar een probleem met de wetenschap, als deze conclusies trekt, die de religie niet aanstaat.
.


de eerste woordje van de openbaring die de profeet Muhammed s.a.a.w gekregen had was "LEES"

1. LEES in de naam van uw Heer, de Schepper.
kuran 96. Het Geronnen Bloed (Al-Alaq)

Hij schenkt wijsheid aan wie Hij wil en wie wijsheid is geschonken is inderdaad overvloedig begiftigd en niemand trekt er lering uit, behalve zij, die begrip hebben.
kuran 2. De Koe (Al-Baqarah) 286

14-03-2005, 20:00

Citaat door Harunyahya:


de eerste woordje van de openbaring die de profeet Muhammed s.a.a.w gekregen had was "LEES"

1. LEES in de naam van uw Heer, de Schepper.
kuran 96. Het Geronnen Bloed (Al-Alaq)

Hij schenkt wijsheid aan wie Hij wil en wie wijsheid is geschonken is inderdaad overvloedig begiftigd en niemand trekt er lering uit, behalve zij, die begrip hebben.
kuran 2. De Koe (Al-Baqarah) 286
Religie is niet zo goed man..het houdt mensen dom en belemmert ontwikkeling. Kijk maar naar de islamitische en westerse wereld...de islamitisch wereld die gedomineerd worden door religie is achtergebleven...terwijl het westen waar de religie afnam zich economisch en technologisch sterk ontwikkelde.

14-03-2005, 20:04

Citaat door de duivel:
Religie is niet zo goed man..het houdt mensen dom en belemmert ontwikkeling. Kijk maar naar de islamitische en westerse wereld...de islamitisch wereld die gedomineerd worden door religie is achtergebleven...terwijl het westen waar de religie afnam zich economisch en technologisch sterk ontwikkelde.
Maar helaas zijn ook de normen en waarden gezakt..

14-03-2005, 20:04
Hmm, religie bevorderd de wetenschap, dat klopt...maar slechts ten dele. Het Christendom bevorderde deze ook, dat wil zeggen totdat de wetenschappelijke bevindingen plotseling de Bijbel gingen tegen spreken.

Hetzelfde is met de evolutietheorie, deze wordt ook gezien als een leugen (zoals hier). Eerst komt het argument dat het een leugen is, daarna maken ze de bewijzen. Just like in the good old days, eerst de bewering dat iemand een heks of tovenaar is en dan komen de bewijzen.

14-03-2005, 20:29

Citaat door DutchBart:
Maar helaas zijn ook de normen en waarden gezakt..
idd, zeer slechte ontwikkeling. Friedrich Nietzsche waarschuwde ons er al voor:


Citaat:
De Dolle mens - Hebben jullie het niet gehoord van die dolle mens die op klaarlichte dag een lantaarn aanstak, de markt op liep en onophoudelijk schreeuwde; Ík zoek God! Ik zoek God!' - Omdat er daar juist veel van die lieden bijeenstonden die niet aan God geloofden, verwekte dit groot gelach. Is hij soms verloren gegaan? zei de een. Is hij verdwaald als een kind? zei de ander. Of heeft hij zich verstopt? Is hij bang voor ons? Is hij scheep gegaan? naar het buitenland vertrokken? - zo schreeuwden en lachten zij door elkaar. De dolle mens sprong midden tussen hen in en doorboorde hen met zijn blikken.
'Waar God heen is?' riep hij uit. 'Dat zal ik jullie vertellen!' Wij hebben hem gedood, - jullie en ik! Wij allen zijn zijn moordenaars! Maar hoe hebben wij dit gedaan? Hoe hebben wij de zee kunnen leegdrinken? Wie gaf ons de spons om de hele horizon weg te vegen? Wat hebben wij gedaan, toen wij deze aarde van haar zon loskoppelden? In welke richting beweegt zij zich nu? In welke richting bewegen wij ons? Weg van alle zonnen? Vallen wij niet aan één stuk door? En wel achterwaarts, zijwaarts, voorwaarts, alle kanten op? Is er nog weleen boven en beneden? Dolen wij niet als door een oneindig niets? Voelen we de adem van lege ruimte in het gezicht? Is het niet kouder geworden? Is het niet voortdurend nacht en steeds meer nacht in aantocht? Moeten er 's morgens geen lantaarns aangestoken worden? Horen wij nog niets van het rumoer van de doodgravers, die God begraven? Ruiken wij nog niets van de goddelijke ontbinding? - ook goden raken in ontbinding! God is dood! God blijft dood! En wij hebben hem gedood! Hoe moeten wij ons troosten, wij moordenaars aller moordenaars? Het heiligste en machtigste wat de wereld tot dusver bezeten heeft, is onder onze messen leeggebloed, - wie wist dit bloed van ons af? Met welk water kunnen wij ons reinigen? Welke zoenoffers, welke heilige spelen zullen wij moeten bedenken? Is niet de grootte van deze daad te groot voor ons? Moeten wij niet zelf goden worden om haar zelfs maar waardig te schijnen? Nooit was er een grotere daad, - en wie er ook na ons geboren wordt, hij behoort vanwege deze daad tot een hogere geschiedenis dan alle geschiedenis tot dusver geweest is!' -Hier zweeg de dolle mens en keek opnieuw zijn toebehoorders aan: ook zij zwegen en keken bevreemd terug. Tenslotte gooide hij zijn lantaarn op de grond, zodat die in stukken sprong en uitdoofde. 'Ik kom te vroeg,' zei hij toen, 'het is mijn tijd nog niet. Deze ongeloofelijke gebeurtenis is nog onderweg, ze wandelt nog rond, -het is nog niet tot de oren der mensen doorgedrongen. Bliksem en donder hebben tijd nodig, het licht der gesternten heeft tijd nodig, daden hebben tijd nodig om gezien en gehoord te worden, ook nadat ze verricht zijn! Deze daad is nog steeds verder van hen af dan de verst gesternten, -en toch hebben ze haar verricht!' - Men vertelt verder dat de dolle mens diezelfde dag nog verscheidene kerken binnengedrongen is en daar zijn requiem aeternam deo aangeheven heeft. Naar buiten gebracht en ter verantwoording geroepen, zou hij telkens alleen maar herhaald hebben: 'Wat zijn deze kerken eigenlijk nog, als ze niet de graven en grafmonumenten van God zijn?'-
- De Vrolijke Wetenschap -

Ja, ook onze humanistische voorouders maakten fouten. Maar van fouten kan men leren. Zoals gezegd zal de taak om nieuwe betekenis aan het leven te geven buiten geloof om een zware worden. Normen en waarden horen ook bij die taak. Onze generatie moet verder gaan met het invullen van dit nieuwe levensdoel, en de generaties na ons zullen waarschijnlijk met ditzelfde doel moeten werken. Een knieval, maar verder ook niets. Met enige moeite kunnen wij weer opstaan en ons verder begeven naar de toekomst.

15-03-2005, 11:47


What is Taught: The first mention of man in flight was by Roger Bacon, who drew a flying apparatus. Leonardo da Vinci also conceived of airborne transport and drew several prototypes.
What Should be Taught: Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain invented, constructed and tested a flying machine in the 800's A.D. Roger Bacon learned of flying machines from Arabic references to Ibn Firnas' machine. The latter's invention antedates Bacon by 500 years and Da Vinci by some 700 years.

What is Taught: Glass mirrors were first produced in 1291 in Venice.
What Should be Taught: Glass mirrors were in use in Islamic Spain as early as the 11th century. The Venetians learned of the art of fine glass production from Syrian artisans during the 9th and 10th centuries.

What is Taught: Until the 14th century, the only type of clock available was the water clock. In 1335, a large mechanical clock was erected in Milan, Italy. This was possibly the first weight-driven clock.
What Should be Taught: A variety of mechanical clocks were produced by Spanish Muslim engineers, both large and small, and this knowledge was transmitted to Europe through Latin translations of Islamic books on mechanics. These clocks were weight-driven. Designs and illustrations of epi-cyclic and segmental gears were provided. One such clock included a mercury escapement. The latter type was directly copied by Europeans during the 15th century. In addition, during the 9th century, Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain, according to Will Durant, invented a watch-like device which kept accurate time. The Muslims also constructed a variety of highly accurate astronomical clocks for use in their observatories.
What is Taught: In the 17th century, the pendulum was developed by Galileo during his teenage years. He noticed a chandelier swaying as it was being blown by the wind. As a result, he went home and invented the pendulum.
What Should be Taught: The pendulum was discovered by Ibn Yunus al-Masri during the 10th century, who was the first to study and document its oscillatory motion. Its value for use in clocks was introduced by Muslim physicists during the 15th century.

What is Taught: Movable type and the printing press was invented in the West by Johannes Gutenberg of Germany during the 15th century.
What Should be Taught: In 1454, Gutenberg developed the most sophisticated printing press of the Middle Ages. However, movable brass type was in use in Islamic Spain 100 years prior, and that is where the West's first printing devices were made.

What is Taught: Isaac Newton's 17th century study of lenses, light and prisms forms the foundation of the modern science of optics.
What Should be Taught: In the 1lth century al-Haytham determined virtually everything that Newton advanced regarding optics centuries prior and is regarded by numerous authorities as the "founder of optics. " There is little doubt that Newton was influenced by him. Al-Haytham was the most quoted physicist of the Middle Ages. His works were utilized and quoted by a greater number of European scholars during the 16th and 17th centuries than those of Newton and Galileo combined.[/COLOR]

15-03-2005, 11:52
What is Taught: The concept of the finite nature of matter was first introduced by Antione Lavoisier during the 18th century. He discovered that, although matter may change its form or shape, its mass always remains the same. Thus, for instance, if water is heated to steam, if salt is dissolved in water or if a piece of wood is burned to ashes, the total mass remains unchanged.
What Should be Taught: The principles of this discovery were elaborated centuries before by Islamic Persia's great scholar, al-Biruni (d. 1050). Lavoisier was a disciple of the Muslim chemists and physicists and referred to their books frequently.

What is Taught: The Greeks were the developers of trigonometry.
What Should be Taught: Trigonometry remained largely a theoretical science among the Greeks. It was developed to a level of modern perfection by Muslim scholars, although the weight of the credit must be given to al-Battani. The words describing the basic functions of this science, sine, cosine and tangent, are all derived from Arabic terms. Thus, original contributions by the Greeks in trigonometry were minimal.

What is Taught: The use of decimal fractions in mathematics was first developed by a Dutchman, Simon Stevin, in 1589. He helped advance the mathematical sciences by replacing the cumbersome fractions, for instance, 1/2, with decimal fractions, for example, 0.5.
What Should be Taught: Muslim mathematicians were the first to utilize decimals instead of fractions on a large scale. Al-Kashi's book, Key to Arithmetic, was written at the beginning of the 15th century and was the stimulus for the systematic application of decimals to whole numbers and fractions thereof. It is highly probably that Stevin imported the idea to Europe from al-Kashi's work.

What is Taught: The first man to utilize algebraic symbols was the French mathematician, Francois Vieta. In 1591, he wrote an algebra book describing equations with letters such as the now familiar x and y's. Asimov says that this discovery had an impact similar to the progression from Roman numerals to Arabic numbers.
What Should be Taught: Muslim mathematicians, the inventors of algebra, introduced the concept of using letters for unknown variables in equations as early as the 9th century A.D. Through this system, they solved a variety of complex equations, including quadratic and cubic equations. They used symbols to develop and perfect the binomial theorem.

What is Taught: The difficult cubic equations (x to the third power) remained unsolved until the 16th century when Niccolo Tartaglia, an Italian mathematician, solved them.
What Should be Taught: Cubic equations as well as numerous equations of even higher degrees were solved with ease by Muslim mathematicians as early as the 10th century.

What is Taught: The concept that numbers could be less than zero, that is negative numbers, was unknown until 1545 when Geronimo Cardano introduced the idea.
What Should he Taught: Muslim mathematicians introduced negative numbers for use in a variety of arithmetic functions at least 400 years prior to Cardano.


What is Taught: In 1614, John Napier invented logarithms and logarithmic tables.
What Should be Taught: Muslim mathematicians invented logarithms and produced logarithmic tables several centuries prior. Such tables were common in the Islamic world as early as the 13th century.

What is Taught: During the 17th century Rene Descartes made the discovery that algebra could be used to solve geometrical problems. By this, he greatly advanced the science of geometry.
What Should be Taught: Mathematicians of the Islamic Empire accomplished precisely this as early as the 9th century A.D. Thabit bin Qurrah was the first to do so, and he was followed by Abu'l Wafa, whose 10th century book utilized algebra to advance geometry into an exact and simplified science.

What is Taught: Isaac Newton, during the 17th century, developed the binomial theorem, which is a crucial component for the study of algebra.
What Should be Taught: Hundreds of Muslim mathematicians utilized and perfected the binomial theorem. They initiated its use for the systematic solution of algebraic problems during the 10th century (or prior).

What is Taught: No improvement had been made in the astronomy of the ancients during the Middle Ages regarding the motion of planets until the 13th century. Then Alphonso the Wise of Castile (Middle Spain) invented the Aphonsine Tables, which were more accurate than Ptolemy's.
What Should be Taught: Muslim astronomers made numerous improvements upon Ptolemy's findings as early as the 9th century. They were the first astronomers to dispute his archaic ideas. In their critic of the Greeks, they synthesized proof that the sun is the center of the solar system and that the orbits of the earth and other planets might be elliptical. They produced hundreds of highly accurate astronomical tables and star charts. Many of their calculations are so precise that they are regarded as contemporary. The AlphonsineTables are little more than copies of works on astronomy transmitted to Europe via Islamic Spain, i.e. the Toledo Tables.

What is Taught: The English scholar Roger Bacon (d. 1292) first mentioned glass lenses for improving vision. At nearly the same time, eyeglasses could be found in use both in China and Europe.
What Should be Taught: Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain invented eyeglasses during the 9th century, and they were manufactured and sold throughout Spain for over two centuries. Any mention of eyeglasses by Roger Bacon was simply a regurgitation of the work of al-Haytham (d. 1039), whose research Bacon frequently referred to.

What is Taught: Gunpowder was developed in the Western world as a result of Roger Bacon's work in 1242. The first usage of gunpowder in weapons was when the Chinese fired it from bamboo shoots in attempt to frighten Mongol conquerors. They produced it by adding sulfur and charcoal to saltpeter.
What Should be Taught: The Chinese developed saltpeter for use in fireworks and knew of no tactical military use for gunpowder, nor did they invent its formula. Research by Reinuad and Fave have clearly shown that gunpowder was formulated initially by Muslim chemists. Further, these historians claim that the Muslims developed the first fire-arms. Notably, Muslim armies used grenades and other weapons in their defence of Algericus against the Franks during the 14th century. Jean Mathes indicates that the Muslim rulers had stock-piles of grenades, rifles, crude cannons, incendiary devices, sulfur bombs and pistols decades before such devices were used in Europe. The first mention of a cannon was in an Arabic text around 1300 A.D. Roger Bacon learned of the formula for gunpowder from Latin translations of Arabic books. He brought forth nothing original in this regard.

What is Taught: The compass was invented by the Chinese who may have been the first to use it for navigational purposes sometime between 1000 and 1100 A.D. The earliest reference to its use in navigation was by the Englishman, Alexander Neckam (1157-1217).
What Should be Taught: Muslim geographers and navigators learned of the magnetic needle, possibly from the Chinese, and were the first to use magnetic needles in navigation. They invented the compass and passed the knowledge of its use in navigation [/COLOR]

15-03-2005, 12:13


(Q). When the Qur’an speaks so much about Science , then how come the Muslims are so backward in the field of Science?

(A). I mainly blame the media. The media today is in the hands of the Westerners, the Europeans - It is in their hand, They have the Satellite, they have the Television, they have the CNN, they have the BBC- It is in their hand. The media is in their hands - and whatever you read in your school books, and books which we read in college - you will read there that… ‘from 8th to the 12th century it was the Dark Ages’. Dark …for whom? It was dark for the Europeans - not for the world. The Arabs and the Muslims, were very much advanced… from 8th to the 12th century -they were very much advanced. The Europeans were backward because… they said…‘dark for the world.’ It was not dark for the world - It was dark for the Europeans. With the limited instruments and technology what we had from 8th to 12th century- what discoveries the Muslim Scientists made - it is unbelievable. Today, because Science is Advanced we are making so many discoveries. There with the amount of limited facilities we had, the amount of discoveries Muslim Scientists made - its unbelievable. For example I quoted in my talk, that Ibn-e-Nafees…he discovered the blood circulation, But in the medical books and the books we read in school… who discovered blood circulation? William Harvey. Every one knows William Harvey-Noone know about Ibn-e-Nafees. Ibn-e-Nafees spoke about ‘blood circulation’, 400 years before - the Europeans later on picked up the books of the Muslims and re-hatched it… and said we discovered it. See… if you see the discoveries that Muslims have made. For example if you know Al-Idrusi - In 1154, he drew the first map of Mediterranean- the geography of the world - first. Mathematics - Muslims were far advanced in Mathematics. We introduced the Decimal point. Do you know, what we call the digits 1, 2, 3? The other ones are called as Roman numerical – it is called as Arabic numerals. Why it is called Arabic numerals?… Because the Arabs were the one who discovered it. The decimal point are the Arabic numerals. The person who first proved the Pythogoras theoram - he was Arab Thusy. We know about the Pythogoras theoram, but we don’t know about Arab Thusy. He said that… ‘The square of the hypotenuse was equal to the sum of the opposite two sides of the triangle’. Alberuni - he was an authority in Trigonometry. All these people they were experts. If you know of Al-Khindi… Al-Khindi, he was a Philosopher, a Mathematician and Astronomer. When great scientists like Galileo , Newton, etc., they said that all physical laws were absolute - he said that all physical laws, are relative. And today we know that, ‘Theory of Relativity’ is proved by Albert Einstein. No one knows about Al-Khindi - He was the person , who basically gave the idea of ‘theory of relativity’. Later on he did more research and talked about ‘Theory of Relativity’. Who knows about the three brothers Mohammed , Shakir and Hassan? Who knows about them?… They toured the surface area of the earth from a angle at the Red Sea… when people thought the world was flat. Chemistry - the Muslims were far advanced in Chemistry. Ibn-e-Hayan, Jabir Ibn-e-Hayyan… they have latinized the word ‘Ghebar’- So when we read in our tent books Ghebar’, we think it is an European. It is a Muslim. Jabir-Ibn - E-Hayan… you know ‘Ghebar’ - you do not know… we do not know who is Jabir. He is the person who distilled Alcohol. ‘Alcohol’ comes from the Arabic word ‘Algul’- meaning ‘Ghost’, ‘Evil Spirit’. ‘Alcohol’ is an Arabic Word. He wrote 2 thousand different pages only on Chemistry. Mohammed Zakariya Razi - he was famous in Medicine - He was authority on the field of Small Pox and Measles. He was the first person who used Mercury ointment. He wrote books on children’s disease. There are several Muslim Scientists. Ali-Ibn-E-Abbas he wrote twenty volumes on Medicine. Ali-Ibn-E-Sina known as ‘Albesina’ …‘Albesina’, it doesn’t not sound Muslim. Ali-Ibn-E-Sina … yes Muslim - ‘Albesina’… not Muslim. Who got the title of ‘Aristole of the East?’ He wrote the book ‘Kanoon’, which was referred as a text book of medicine till as late as seventeenth century. Who knows Ibn-e-Zuhoor ? He was the person after Alexander who did research on Paracytology. He described the ‘Itch Mite’… the Parecaditis. He described the Otydismedia, Intrycosetomy. Several medical doctors Al-Zaharwi… Al-Zaharwi was the famous dentist, as well as surgeon as well as Optitician. He invented several instruments of Surgery, Gynecology as well as Dentistry. We all of us know the other thing but the media is in the hands of the Westerners. The Muslims were far advanced. But I do agree with you- today… today the Muslims are getting backward in Science- You know why? The Europeans are being advanced - You know why? The Muslims are recoming backward, because they are going away from the Holy Qur’an - they are going away from their Religion. And do you know why the Europeans are getting advanced? They too are going away from their Religion. The Europeans are also getting advanced, because even they are going away from their religion. The Muslims they are going backward because they are going away from their religion. I would request the Muslims brothers and sisters out here, as well as Non-Muslims -there are people reading the Qur’an… Why don’t we read the Qur’an with understanding? Why don’t we ponder over the verses? We have only kept the Qur’an for kissing, and keeping on top. That is all… the Qur’an was not meant for it to be kissed, and kept on top - It should be implemented in your daily life. If you implement the Qur’an in your daily life, read it with understanding , Inshallah again we will be on top of the world.

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